How to Navigate Bad Client Feedback on Your Content
Brought to you by freelance writer Caty, this week's livestream I'll go over how to deal with client feedback when it's making your work poor quality, creates errors, or ends up in a clip you don't want to have in your portfolio. We'll also talk about how to adjust and handle differences in preferences vs. meeting your clients needs, and how to see red flags before you sign a client who's not a fit for your writing style.
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Alright, welcome in. Yeah, the thumbnail. So we are, we're doing a few things today. We're having our lives to where we're talking about navigating black bad client feedback. So sometimes you just end up getting feedback from your clients where, you know, you feel like it's not what they asked for. Right? You end up getting feedback on your work where they think that like they're making all these comments and you're like, this, isn't what you asked for at all. Or you get client feedback where you're like, okay, this is making my work, my work, poor quality. Like this is taking the quality way or they're making their own edits. And you're trying to like, oh my gosh, what just happened? And just for the record, most clients make very good at it. Most good clients and most editors at magazines, whether they're new standard trade or online, make very good edits.
Hey Marie, welcome in. And most of them do a great job with it. So let's just get that out of the way. This is like a rare thing where most of the time, the problem. Oh my gosh. Don't you start with me today. Don't you start? Oh my gosh. Can you get in your hovel? Can you get in your hop going go in your Hobbit hole? No, that's not your hot either. Okay. Well I guess don't you start with me. Hey, Vicky. Welcome in. Hey, Katie. Welcome in. So this topic that we're talking about today is from Katie. Who's here right now. This Katie right here, who says she likes my red shirt. Thank you. I feel like it's almost Christmasy sometimes when I wear red on the live stream. So I kind of like, I'm careful about wear red because I feel like this looks very like Elfin SANAS dreamland or something.
I'm here with Dan. Welcome in you. You have these, oh, excuse me. Tiny gremlin. Excuse me, Nick. Tiny gremlin. All right. So what we have here, I have the wheel. So I put one of the things that I did after we wrapped up the course enrollment period was I offered to win a one-on-one coaching session with me. And I have all those names. So w can you see this wheel? So everyone should be able to see the wheel now. Hi, Diane. Welcome in. So all of the names have been added in this like, list over here on the side. So you should be able to see the wheel. So let me know if you didn't see it, cause we're going to spin it in a little bit and we may spend it twice. Who knows? It's a wild Friday and I'm tired.
So I might be delirious and spin it twice. Who knows? So today's topic. We are talking about what Katie asks, she's asking about navigating bad client feedback. So let's talk about this a little bit. So when we end up getting this feedback, right, we get our feedback. And like I said, most of the time, the feedback is good. Most of the time you get stuff and you're like, oh, that makes so much more sense. Or, oh yeah, that makes, I should have done this. Excuse me. Or you end up getting something where you're just kind of getting clarity on what they want, how to write for them. How to kind of like figure out what kind of little nuances they like in their pieces. And most of the time, that's what it is. Sometimes you get client feedback where you're just like, what just happened here?
I don't get it. And we're talking about those situations, those certain situations where you end up with client feedback where you're just kind of confused. So a lot of times this happens with fit. A lot of times what ends up happening is you don't, did you guys all see the wheel? Am I like, did you see it? Okay. I just check it because like no one answered. So I was confused, you know, it's the first time we tried to like, do a browser thing. So most of the time it has to do with fit. It means that when you signed up with a client, right, like you signed the client and you had a contract with them, you didn't ask for examples of what they're looking for. You didn't get an idea of like tone and style information. You didn't get stuff where you are getting basically like a roadmap of what they want.
And a lot of times I think this is a big mistake that writers make is they don't ask for examples. Hey, can you just send me some examples of what you're looking for? Even if they send you examples from their own blog, or if they end up sending you examples from something else, at least you have something to go on because it let's say you get edits back and you're just like, this is nothing like what they wanted. This is nothing like what they asked for what is going on. And then you can be like, well, how, you know, this seems really different from the example, can you tell me like, you know how to make these changes? And a lot of times they'll be like, oh, it is really different. Like, actually I want this now. And then you, oh, okay. And then you can kind of figure out how to make changes going forward.
You kind of figure out how to make, you know, your edits and how to write differently. But a lot of times this is just like we signed a client and we ended up we ended up not really realizing that we're not a good fit. Like whether we didn't figure it out on the call or we end up, you know, with a situation where it's a personality mismatch. Like they, they want to be very hands-on or they like, sometimes you just get clients who like to do a lot of edits. Like I have clients not so much right now, but I've had clients in the past where like, I'll send them something and they will just do a ton of edits. And I'm like, was it good? They're like, yeah, this was great. And I'm like, okay, like you did a ton of edits what's going on. So I think it's just, sometimes people like to tinker, sometimes it's fit. Sometimes you didn't, you know, it's a personality thing that you didn't iron out on the call. And sometimes the edits are just like, they, this is something that, you know, really happens with red light clients is they think that they know, oh no, I got an eyelash. They think that they know how to write. Right. Because everybody writes emails every day. Oh no.
Oh, I think I got an eyelash under my contact. Oh, hold on. I'm sorry. Hold on. I'm very back.
Alright.
Sorry. We're all good. That's never happened to me before on a watching. So I forget where I was. Oh, sometimes you will get clients that will think that they're really good writers and then they'll edit your work. And you're like, oh, what did you just do? And the problem is that sometimes you get clients where it's just not a good fit because they're often the types of clients where you sign up. Like when you talk to them about signing a contract, they're like, oh, well, if you cut off 100 words, is that cut a hundred dollars? Or, you know, it's like this big hoop jumping process. And then by the time you like sign them as a client, it, it trickles down into the editing. So it just becomes really frustrating and it becomes a big pain in the butt.
So when we're trying to figure this out and we're doing our edits we want to make sure that we just like, are nice about it and clear about it. So if they think that they're what they're doing is good writing. That's okay. You know, they're entitled to their opinion about that. But sometimes what I do, if I go back and I see something and I'm just like, this is not good. I will go back and just make some changes. And I'll be like, Hey, I thought this sharpened it up. I thought this made it more clear. I thought this was, you know, more targeted to your audience. I thought that this gel better, or it flowed better. Like I'll make, go back and make edits and add. And usually they just leave them. Most of the time, it's just kind of like, you don't want to go in there and be like, you suck at writing.
Why did you do this? Don't do that. But what you want to do is you want to nicely kind of like make other things, right? This is supposed to be a collaborative process. So it doesn't, it doesn't mean that you turn something in and then they do their edits and that's the end of it. Right. You get a chance to do your own stuff. Right. A lot of times people just leave me comments, fix this thing. This is a run-on sentence. This is too much or whatever. And I just go back and I make other changes too. So like if they changed something and like, sometimes they make typos. Sometimes they use the wrong word, like they use, like they they do that thing that everybody hates whatever it's called. Like when you make it future past or past anyways, it's not present tense.
I forget what it's called. Like, I always forget what it is. It's like future whatever it is. And you can just tell when you read it over that, you're like, oh, this is wrong. And you fix that. So a lot of times it's okay to go back and make changes. And you just ask like, Hey, you just make a comment in the Google. Like I always do Google docs, so I can usually make comments and I can put it in like editing mode so they can see all the stuff I'm doing. And I just make a comment, Hey, I just changed this. Let me know if you'd like me to fix it again, whatever. So I think that kind of helps with the editing process, but again, I think a lot of it has to do with fit. And I think a lot of it has to do with like, getting examples before you actually write for them before you do anything, get examples, like before you even sign a contract, like I usually ask for examples before I signed a contract or they send examples, Hey, we're looking for this type of content.
Can you do that? And then I'm like, what does that give you? Send me an example. And then that way I know before I get on a call or before I signed a contract or before I end up, you know, working with someone, who's just not a fit. I know what they're looking for. And there's sometimes where I get stuff where they send me an example and I'm just, I just am like, Nope, I am not a good fit for this. Like, sorry, this is not, not a good deal. And I know that from the examples. So let's talk about differences in preferences and then errors. So like I said, when you handle errors, it's okay to go back and make more changes. Like this should be a collaborative process. Like you submitted your first draft, they edited it. And if they send it back and say, like, make these edits okay.
To make other edits in there, that's the editing process. That's part of writing, right? No one submits their first draft of a novel. And they're like, this is great print it like that never happens. Or you end up like what was it like Tom Clancy? My dad told me this story a whole bunch of times. I forget. I think it was a hunt for red October. Like Tom Clancy turned in hunt for red October. And they were like, this is good. Start over rewrite the whole thing. And that's part of the process is they're like, this is nice, but try again. So I think when we're handling errors, it's okay to make actual changes to legitimate errors. Like they, like they changed your present tense stuff to past tense or they, you know, the whole article says is in like you're writing to you or you're running in second or third person.
They changed it to first person or like legitimate errors where they linked the wrong thing. They linked the wrong study or they link the wrong source or whatever. I think that's fine to go back and change that if you have to have a call with them, I think that's fine too. Sometimes. when you get something back and you're just like confused about the edits, ask, if you can get on a call with them, ask if you can talk it through with them, if you get a bunch of stuff and you're just like, what is going on? Like, what is this? Talk it through with them. Because sometimes it's a lot easier to have a phone conversation than to do it through through Google comments. The other thing is that you give them a chance to explain, like, here's what I was thinking.
And you're like, oh, okay. That's not what I was thinking. Now I see that we were on two different pages or sometimes what ends up happening is you get them on a call. And they're like, I don't know. It felt right. And you're like, it's definitely wrong. It's definitely wrong. And sometimes when I hear that, like it felt right. I'm like, oh, okay. We're I don't think we're a fit because like, this is definitely wrong. So whatever you're feeling is not right. And it's mostly like that stuff is usually like grammar stuff or basic stuff. It's not like, I feel good about this and you feel good about that. And like, now we're clashing heads. It's usually not that. But if you do end up having differences in preferences, or you end up having differences in the way that you want the work to come out or differences in basically like the end result of it, a lot of that has to do with the beginning that you didn't ask.
For an example, you got to ask for an example. The other thing is when you have a call, personality differences are easy to tell on a call. It's a lot harder via email. The other thing is that when you have personality differences and you're editing something sometimes you're just like, cool, this is what you want. Okay. I guess I'm just not going to put it in my portfolio because it doesn't reflect what I want other clients to hire me for. But you ended up doing the project, how they ask, right? Like you ended up doing the project doing what they like the edits and changes that they want. And I've done that a bunch of times where I'm just like, okay, like this I'm just gonna, I'm gonna make the changes you want, even though I don't agree with this.
And just number one, this just, isn't going to go with my portfolio. Well, bummer two. I'm going to realize that, like, we should not continue working together because like, we are just not a fit and that's okay. That happens. And then three, you know, a lot of times you just learn from that experience, you learn that there's certain quirks that happen when you end up getting these things. Sometimes when you work with different clients, when you get to the editing process or the publishing process or whatever part of it after you turn in your draft, you realize that you're like, oh, I never want to work with a client who says this. I don't want to work with clients who do this. I don't want a lot of those things you can suss out in the initial call. So you end up Hey, Getty, welcome in.
Oh, nice. You're driving. Well, be careful, be careful while you drive. So you want to make sure that you kind of like Newton put those things in the noodle or you write them down. And for me, that's put a lot of, like, I know when I talk to someone now, when I asked them, like, what is your revision process like, or what are your edits like? And they say something like, oh yeah, I'm really hands-on. I usually change a lot. And I'm like, okay. I'm like, now I know going ahead that if I work with them, there may be a lot of edits or there may be a bunch of things I don't agree with. Or they just want to like, have someone basically put up the framework and they want to like futz around with it. So I think it just depends, but write those things down.
Those are really important. And a lot of times in freelance writing, one of the things that I used to get really frustrated with was that everybody seemed to know all these things. I was like, how do they know this stuff? Like, how do they actually know this? How did they figure this out? What kind of magical fairy, like tap them on the shoulder and was like, how did this, you know, don't do that, do this. A lot of it is experience. Sometimes you have to work with bad clients. Sometimes you have to work with bad editors. Sometimes you have to work with people that are very handsy with your work to realize what you actually want in a good client for me. Like, I don't mind if someone's hands you, like for me, a lot of times hands Zenith with my work. Let's just say, I don't know if someone's handsy with my work.
I think that it's okay. Like we're our goal is to make the content work for them. Our goal is that it helps their audience. Our goal is that it actually, you know, makes a difference for them. But through that process, if that process becomes really difficult for me, like writing in that style or making all those changes, or they want like 10 rounds of revisions or something like that, that's a big, no, I'm just out of there. I was like, Nope, this isn't working goodbye. But I've learned that over time, I've had a bunch of bad experiences where I'm just like, what you said you wanted, and then what I did. And then now what you're saying that you want are two, like they're three different things. So, you know, you ask for clarification and they're just like, yeah, do this.
And then you do it. And then they're like, actually it's this. And it's like, you know, that kind of run around stuff. Or we're like, oh, I'll know it. When I see it. And you're like, oh God run. A lot of those things come from experience. Right. A lot of those things just come from working with bad clients and getting bad edits. But like I said, that's usually the minority. Like most of the time I ended up getting clients and I like throughout my career, like I've had some bad edits and some things where I was just like, I'm out. And that's just going to happen. You know? I think that's just yeah. And this is a good point too, is like, you want to, Maria says, like, I think two is really important to put stuff in your portfolio that you want to get hired for.
Not just good writing. Yeah. So like, if you get a clip and you're just like, you know, you just put it in your portfolio, people will hire you for that. Like, I don't have any clips and I haven't worked at, I didn't work. It's been like almost eight years, like pretty much eight years since I stopped working at my old engineering job where I was a technical writer and I still get people contacting me, being asking for technical writing and asking for manuals or documents or like all this stuff. And I'm just like, you know, like there's somewhere, somewhere, there's a sample of that somewhere. And they're like, I saw your sample. I want this thing. I'm like, it's definitely not my portfolio. So if you get something where you're just like, this is not a reflection of the writing I want to do, don't put it in your portfolio.
People will like, it's, you know, they see it and they want that thing. If you, you know, if it's really a problem to get that thing, or you really don't want to do that thing again, don't put it in your portfolio. A lot of times that's what our portfolio is, is like, do you like this? Hire me? Like, it's, it's kind of like this here's what my best work. Here's the things that I really like. Here's the things that I want to do more of here are the things I do really well. And if you put something in there where you're just kind of like, oh, I just need to put this in there. Like just, and you don't want to be hired for that thing. Like let's say like I have, I'm not a big fan of writing press releases and I still have press releases in my portfolio.
And like, some people ask me about that and I'm like, Ugh, no, I don't want to do that anymore. But I keep them in my portfolio because they're in certain niches where I don't have like a huge pile of clips. So I keep it for that. But I think that most of the time, you don't want to put anything in your portfolio that you don't want to get hired for. The only exception is if you're a new freelance writer and you just need clips. I think I would be really cautious about putting something in there where you have bad feedback or you like have something that is not reflective of your writing at all. I'd be cautious about that, but if you really need clips you might want to consider maybe holding onto it until you get a new clip and then deleting that one.
But be careful about that because you don't want to get hired for something that, you know, for example, this is actually a rough example. So sometimes there are writers who have been working for a really long time and they submit work all the time and then they get clips in big publications and then they send those clips to other people and they can't replicate those clips because those clips came from their editor. That's rough. That's not good. So basically they end up getting more work because they have these big clips, but then when they turn in their work to their new client, they're like, what is this? It's nothing like your clips. And that's where you want to be careful about that. So like, if you get clips, like, I feel really good if my clip is like 80 to 90% raw material, like it's, it's 80 to 90%.
What I originally did, I consider that a win. So if I get something and they change 20 to 20%, like 20 to 10 to 20% of it, I'm like, cool, we're good. I think when they change about half that's when I get really nervous about it. So if I go and they've changed like 50 to 60%, I'm like something, you know, like I don't know about that. So if you can get something where like, pretty much all of it is like your raw material that you turned it from the draft and they futz around with some things I think you're in good shape. And I think that's normal. Like a lot of my work a lot of my work that I do now, like it's pretty much 99%, which I get very lucky on that. Cause like, I've been selective about the clients I work with.
So like pretty much most of my work is like 99%, my raw material. Sometimes it's 80 to 90, but like if I'm working for clients that are bigger, like bigger clients, big magazines, I already know they're going to make a lot of changes. So if I can get out of there with 80% of my raw material, like I feel good about that. Even 75%, if like I'm like some of the pieces I've written have taken me like a month to put together just between interviews and research. And it's a lot of stuff, like a lot of data and a lot of things to like put in all the right order, if I can get away with like 70% or 75% of these big giant projects on my own stuff. I'm cool with that. Because if you're doing a big giant piece of you doing a big, giant feature, you're basically taking like tons of material and whittling it down to 2000 to 3000 words, which is already really hard to do, then your editors seeing it for the first time.
And they're kind of like, okay, we gotta figure this out. So I think just in general, expect your work to change, but be careful about what you put in your portfolio and be careful about getting samples and be careful about making sure that you understand what they want and how to do it. And that you understand the difference between good and bad feedback. Good feedback makes your work better. Like you reread your work and you're like, oh, that sounds a lot better. Like, let's say you sometimes I do this as like, I'll make all the changes one day I'll sleep. And then the next day I'll look at it and I'll be like, oh, the work is better. Or I'll go back. And I did, you know, this needs to be fixed. So it should always make your work better. It should make it feel more cohesive.
It should fit the style or tone or feeling or vibe of the magazine or the business. It should, it should be cohesive. So if you get edits where like you're reading through it and it's like, you're driving on a bumpy road, like this is something that I know when other people read my work before I turn it in, like when I'm editing, like if they're like, like if they're, you know, driving on a bumpy road like a 1920s car, like before they paved all the roads. Right. And that it's just rocks everywhere. If that's what it's like for them to get through it, like that's bad, that's bad. If that's what the edits come back like then, and you, you kind of have to struggle to get through every sentence and struggled to put it all together. Like that's bad. We want it to be smooth.
We want all the things to connect to each other. Right? All the ideas should connect. There should be clean breaks between different ideas. So always make sure that you're like ma have your eye out. But most of your, I like pretty much, most of the time your edits should be good, but there are a personality like personality, things that happen to where you're just like, oh, I thought my work was good, but now you're telling me I suck and like, okay, we're obviously just not a fit. Okay. Let's talk about the red flags part. So we already kind of went over the creating content to put in your portfolio. Right. We bought and put the right stuff in our portfolio that really matches our writing style. But we also want to make sure that we pay attention to red flags.
So let's talk about a few of those. I'm going to look at the comments real quick, cause I know they're coming in. Cool. Ruth Ann said, yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Yeah. You have to be careful if you put good writing on your site, but you don't want to do it again, then I need to get stuck sometimes. So the last thing is our red flag, so we're just going to go through a few of them and then we're going to spin the wheel to see who wins coaching. So that's going to be fun. Charlotte, are you just having a meltdown today? She's just, she's just having a meltdown. Oh, she just moved it. She's like actively moving it. Charlotte, get out of there. Oh no, she moved it like a whole bunch. Hold on. We're just having a while late today. That's just the day we're having. Right.
We've just got a wild munchkin in here. All right. So our red flags or red flags are that someone comes in and they say like, oh yeah, I had, I hired several other freelance writers, but none of them were good or they weren't like, oh yeah. Their writing like was different than their portfolio. Or like, they just didn't meet my needs. Like if you end up getting a bunch of people, like they have already hired other people that didn't work for them. Like you need to figure out why that was. And a lot of times it's usually that person doesn't know how to hire the right person for the work. They don't understand how to communicate what they want. They just they're like either. Like I'll like it, you know, I'll tell you when I see it. Or they're like, okay, I liked this portfolio piece, do this.
And you do that. And they're like, actually I don't like it as much as I thought. So ask about that. Ask like why they stopped working with those other freelance writers, ask them why why they decided the work wasn't a fit or why that, how that they would change the process in the future. So that's the first one. The next red flag is something like when someone tells you that they, oh yeah. Like I like to get in there and get my hands dirty. So like, for me, that's a red flag because like, if I, if they're going to change my work a time, how much of it is really my work? And like, can I really put that in my portfolio? Because like, it's got a ton of changes. So for me, it just depends on kind of who I'm talking to. Like, I expect magazines for them to like change a lot of stuff or to want a lot of changes.
Like that is a different category than businesses. Magazines have like very specific things that they want, especially those high-end magazines. And I expect them to make a lot of changes, but with businesses if they're in, they're changing it a lot, like I would just put up like a little like monitor for that, like a little warning light being like, okay, well just expect that, like, if you work with them, you may not end up getting most of your work. In, you may not end up getting a clip that's like 80 to 90%, your raw material. It could be like 40 or 30% your raw material. The next red flag is obviously I'll know it when I see it, we've talked about this. So if they come in and they're like, oh yeah, you know I'll send you some examples, but I'll know it when I see it or they say something like well, why don't you just write a draft and I'll see how it looks.
And you're like, no, no, no. That's a big red flag because again, we want specific expectations. We want to work with clients that are like, here are the examples. Can you do this? Do you want to do this? Do you like doing this? Do you have clips like this? All of those things should match up. The next red flag should be that you get on a call and it's like uncomfortable. So if you get on a call with someone and you're talking about the writing process, you're talking about revisions, you're talking about how you'd work together. And it's just awkward. That is probably going to be how it's like to work with them. Like when you get on a call with someone you should gel with them, you should make jokes. Like I made a joke the other day on a client call. And we just like, we laughed about it.
Cause it was just like the perfect, like we, we were like, oh my gosh, it's totally true. Yes. That should be how it is that you should like get along with them. If you end up having a call where it's like uncomfortable and awkward and they don't really know what they're talking about, like they, they, they say a bunch of stuff and you're like, well, that doesn't mean anything. Or they're like, oh, I saw somebody else do this. And you're like, okay. Hey Jenny, welcome in. Yes, Charlotte, Charlotte sort of understands the camera. Like she, she understands like where it is, but she understands beyond the camera over here, like in, when I tell her to go into her Hobbit hole. But she also is like, I don't know what it is for the past couple of weeks. She's just been really antsy when we put her in this room.
So she's just been like running around, making a mess everywhere. Cool. the other thing is that you get red flags from places that are they go through freelance writers really quickly. So maybe they didn't hire and fire, but they ended up having like a bunch of, oh yeah. Like we've had freelance writers in the past and like we've used, you know, we've used them for three months and then, excuse me, not needed them for nine months. And then, you know, they're, they're kind of like, you really want that consistency. The good, the way to get good content is you have like consistent stuff. You really get into a groove with someone. And if you, if they really struggled to get into a groove with someone, that's a problem. Another red flag is if they have a high turnover rate at their company. So let's say you start working with Katie or you were working with Jenny, and then they leave in three months and then they get another person who stays there for six months or nine months, and then leaves like, that's a big problem.
So if you see a lot of turnover and you can find this in LinkedIn stats, like it'll tell you at least you, you can relationally see what's going on. Cause it'll tell you they're hiring and what they're hiring for. So if you see that same job title coming up, that they're hiring for that again, that's a problem. A lot of times too, with your edits is you have to have the same outlook on the content. So if you get on a call with someone and you ask them what their outlook is or what their goals are for the content, and they're not really able to like to number one, explain it or two, they say stuff where you're like, Ooh, that's not really my thing. That's usually going to end up being a mess with edits. You want to get on a call with someone and say like, yeah, your content should be this.
Your audience usually likes this type of content. I know from my past clients, this has happened. And even if you are just starting as a freelance writer make sure you kind of like, listen for that stuff, make sure you listen to them explaining why they want the content, what the value is that you guys have the same idea about where the content is going and how it, how it's helping. Right. It shouldn't be content for content's sake because we all know that's just what happens all the time. People are just like, let's create content. We just, we need content. Now everything is content, social media, you know, to everywhere, you know? And we have to be really careful about that because it ends up being really crappy stuff. So you want to have the same goals when you get on a call with someone, you should be able to have a back and forth conversation about like, oh yeah.
Like totally the content. Yes. I totally get it. It makes, yeah, I love when content does XYZ and they're like, yes, like you should be able to have that conversation if you can't then usually that's just, it's just going to be messy for edits. Because when you turn in your work, you have a goal and you have some ideas of what the content should be. They have different ideas and then they don't really match up. So Katie says, when you hear those red flags, these red flags, how often do you end up just saying we're not a fit right on the call. Do you sometimes just wait and see if you like the topic? Yes and no. So sometimes if I get on a call with someone and it's just like, there's too many red flags, or I know like there's very specific things that people say to me where I'm just like, no, like for example, if I get on a call with someone and they tell me, they're just creating, they don't know why they're creating content.
They don't really see the value in content. They're asking for a lot of discounts. They're wondering how much time it takes me to do something. Not, not like, Hey, is your average turnaround time? Like two to three weeks. If we give you an assignment, they're like, well, how many hours does it take? Like, it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. If I get on there and they're like, well, do you do a ton of rounds of revisions? Like we've had writers in the past where we've just had to do a ton of rounds. So do you do that too? And you're just like, why did you need to do that? Like something went wrong in the process. There's a lot of times where, or someone treats me like an employee and they're like, prove to me why I should hire you. I'm like, no, no, I don't know.
Like we should be a fit for each other. You're not hiring me, we're working together. So there are times when I get on the call and someone basically treats it like a job interview rather than like, let's talk about the project and then let's talk about experience and like that kind of stuff where I'm just like, Hey, you know what? This is just not a fit. And I will tell them on the call, I've done it a bunch. Like I'll talk to them a little bit. And we'll kind of get to this point where they'll either say like, does that work for you? Or does that sound like a fit or we'll get to some place in the conversation where we're talking about like moving forward and I'll be like, you know what? It just sounds like we're not a fit.
It looks like you really want SEO, heavy writing. Like you want someone to manage this tool plus do all this other stuff. And that's not really my thing. And I will just tell them, like, it it's crazy. And I know this sounds silly and I resisted it. This is another thing I resisted for so long. Was just being honest with someone, like, people don't want to play a game of like, oh, maybe I'll get back to you. And like, maybe it'll work out. Like, no, just tell them no. And then they're like, okay. And then they go off with their life. Like, that's way better telling them no two people respect you more for being clear with them and saying like, Nope, this is not a fit. They respect you more for saying like, I understand what my worth is. I understand what I want to work on.
I understand what projects and clients I should onboard. And that like, I dunno what it is. Maybe it's just like a relationship thing where like you reject them and they're like, wait, come back. We need you to like that kind of thing. I don't know it's that, but there's you get a lot more respect from just being like, Hey, just, just want to tell you, like, we're not our fit. I want you to find the best writer for your project. And that's, you know, I'm just not a fit for this type of content or the way you want to work or whatever. So most of the time when I hear certain things or like, if I'm having a conversation with someone and I can't actually speak to them, like it's really hard to have a conversation with them. That's usually a red flag where I'm like, Ugh, I don't know what this is going to be like.
Another one is like, when I have a conversation with someone and like this is a new thing now that we have zoom is like, people are, have zoom in their house. And like, I built this, right? Like this is for YouTube and other stuff. I'm like my course, like I built this so I could record stuff in a nice way. But some people do it in their house where they have a mirror behind them, where you can see that they're clicking on other things and doing other things and paying attention to actually speaking to you, that's the best. Or when they have a picture behind them that has like a reflective frame and you can see their computer screen and they're doing other stuff and they're not listening and not paying attention. That means that when they get there, your work, they're not, they're doing 85 other things.
They're not actually focused in on your work and editing it. They're doing other stuff. Slack is going off emails going off. Oh, I have to go to this meeting this just like, they're not paying attention. That's a big red flag. So if I see kind of those kinds of things on a call, or like, they're not paying, like they're not into it or they don't they just don't seem interested or they're like being forced to do it then. Yeah. I just say no, but sometimes I find topics really interesting. So there's certain things that I will I will kind of like test it out, but they have to, they have to meet most of the other criteria. Like I have to be able to talk to them. I have to be able to have a conversation. We have to have similar goals for the content.
Like if someone's like, I want to rank on the first page on Google, I'm like, goodbye. Have a nice day. Like, that's not my thing. Like a lot of my con, like, to be fair, not like my content does rank on the first page of Google. Like a bunch of my articles are on the first page of the search rankings for certain things, but that's not my number one major goal. That's not like I don't set out to do that. That happens because there's a bunch of other things that are put in place. So if someone comes to me with an interesting topic sometimes like sometimes I'll end up doing a test project. I don't do them super often, but I will do a test project sometimes. And then sometimes if I like the topic they really have to meet like at least 70 or 80% of my other criteria.
Like you don't, it's not that you just like the topic and want to write about it. You still have to work with them. So even if you write the topic in the way that you really like, and you feel like it's executed well, and it does all the things to help the audience, like learn something or move forward or make a choice, all of that stuff, you still have to work with that client. So that topic may not end up being the thing that you write. They may end up doing all this other stuff. And I know sometimes as writers, we think that the words is like, yeah, I'm just really excited about pets. Let me tell you all about my pebbles. They're the best they're so loving. They are just wonderful dogs. They they're so gentle all this stuff like, and then I end up just taking it cause I liked the topic.
And then they changed the article to being like pit bulls are the worst. They're going to eat everybody. And then I'm like, oh like that. That's a big problem. And this sometimes is a thing that we do as writers where we're like, I really like this thing. I want to write about this thing. And then you end up connecting with a client because you're like, oh, they want me to write about this thing. Thank God someone wants to pay me to do this thing. And then it just ends up being a disaster. So I would still be careful about it. I would still think about at least 70 to 80% of meeting most of your other stuff before before I would really sign on because a lot of times this is how we get into disaster situations, right? This is how we end up getting getting ourselves in these, in these holes basically.
We're like, oh, this thing I thought I liked writing about, I still like writing about it, but now they're changing my stuff or they're, I'm doing all these things or they're, they're making it like they changed the slant of my article. You don't actually always get the raw topic either. Like sometimes they're like writing an article about this and it's like a very broad topic and it's really hard to do those like overarching sweeping articles. Cause you can't get that specific. And then it ends up being kind of a mess. So I would still be careful. And I, like I said, like, I think it's, you just get so much more respect from just being honest with someone. Like, I think it's better to just be honest with them and be like, no, I'm not a fit. Like I am. I am looking to build my business on clients who are fit, who makes sense for where I want to take my business, who will refer me to other clients who are in the client realm that I want to be in.
I'm working with clients who make sense for what I want to grow into or what types of content I want to do in the future. Sometimes when you just kind of like take a chance on something like in this type of realm, especially when it comes to edits, like it ends up being a big pain in the butt where you spend like a week doing edits and you're like never again. So just be careful about that. All right. Is everybody ready to spin the wheel? Jenny says, do you have to give do you have to give a reason if you tell a client, you don't think they're a great fit? I don't. I just say like, Hey, I don't think we're a great fit if they ask why. You can definitely tell them, like, for example, a lot of times where I say I'm a not, not a great fit is like, I thought I was a fit for their content in terms of niche and they want something super technical and I'm like, Nope, not my thing.
If they come to me and like I said, they're like, we want to be on the first page of Google. I'm like, Nope, not my thing. Because yeah, that's, that's a beast. Or like sometimes it's that you listened to how they describe the project and you're just like, that's just not, that's not the type of content I want to create or you know, I just don't think we're a fit. Cause like our goal was for the, for how we want to create content or different. Or I just, you know, I just don't feel like we're fit. You can just say, no, this is, this is one thing that I learned from real estate agents. I've interviewed hundreds, if not, not a thousand, well, no I've interviewed hundreds and hundreds of real estate agents, realtors, whatever, the constant thing, they're just like, no is a complete sentence.
You could just say like, no, that you don't have to give an explanation to anyone. You don't owe anyone, anything you don't owe them like a detailed explanation of like, why why this isn't a fit. Like if you went in there, if you went in there and you were like, you were like, Hey, you know what? I just, I'm just, I just don't feel like we're the quite the right fit to work together. But I do want you to get the best writer for your work. And I just don't think you know, that's, that's me. I don't think I'm the best writer for this project. And you don't want to go in there and be like, you sound horrible. You sound like you're a horrible person to work with. Like, you don't want to say that. Even if that's what you're thinking, you're like, oh God, this is a hard, no, you can just be, just use this phrase.
I don't think I'm the right writer for this work. I definitely want you to find the right fit. I just don't think I'm the right fit for this particular project. That's it? You don't have to say like why that is or how it happened or like, oh my gosh, I need to talk to my emotional support dog. Like, you don't need to do any of that. I don't, you don't owe them that this is your first conversation with them. You're like, you're not best friends. So I just don't think I used to think I needed to I'm like, oh, I have to explain it to them so that like, they, they don't feel so bad about being rejected. Like they're being rejected regardless like that, that sucks. That happens. But the better part of that is like, you don't have to work with someone who's not a fit.
And Charlotte, I swear if you bump it again. Yeah. You bumped it. She's like, okay, she's just leaning up against it. Charlotte likes to lean up against things. So yeah, you don't have to give them a reason. It's okay to just say no. And then Jenny says, is it rude if I said, yeah, I think that's what you should say. Like I think, I think this is like a thing that we just struggle with as humans is like, we're not rejecting them as a human being. Like most of the time, sometimes they're really mean people and you're just like get out of my house. But most of the time we're not rejecting them as a person. That's why I say like, Hey, I just don't think I'm a fit for this project. Not, I'm not a fit in this niche. I'm not a good at technical material.
I really suck at this thing. We don't need to go through like all of our faults of like, why we're bad at it. I think it's better to just be like, I'm not a fit for this project. I could be a fit for a different project. I could be a fit if you move to a different company I could be a fit if your goal is to do this other thing. But I just, I think it's better just to say, like, I'm not a good fit. Like I just don't think we're a fit for this project. And I also think it kind of alleviates some of the rejection feeling. When you say like, I want you to have the best writer for your project, which is the truth. Like I want you to have the best writer and I'm not the best person to do this work.
I just am not. It's kind of like someone saying, like, I want you to write about Marine biology and I'd be like, I don't know anything about Marine biology. Like I am not the right person for this work. That's how I think about it is like, if I take it to the extreme, then obviously it's not a fit it's like, we often think of someone comes to us with something in our niche. That kind of makes sense. That sort of on track. We're like, well, it's close enough. Sometimes it's just not, sometimes you have to take it to the extreme and be like, do you want to talk about organic chemistry? Which Ruth Ann is. Right. And I'm just like, no, please don't make me that's kind of the stuff, right. Or like, let's say, someone's like you know, they don't want to talk about FinTech.
Which I think Murray is like, doesn't like FinTech, right? You know, that's just not a fit. It doesn't matter if it's in your niche. You're just not a fit for that project. And like, I think I just really believe honesty is the best policy and this is the same thing. When I have coaching students, right? Like coaching students fill out an application on my website, right. They go to my website, they fill out an application and I actually make sure we're a fit to work together because it's not productive if I take a coaching student and we're not a fit. Like they won't do the work. It'll be frustrating. They'll think that they spent money on the wrong thing, which they might have. Just, it's really hard to do that. It's like this friction thing that happens all the time.
And I think it's better just to be honest with people and be like, Hey, we're, we're not the best fit. It's totally fine. I'm not rejecting you as a human. I'm just saying no to this project. So I think it's totally fine. Cool. All right. Let's spin the wheel. Oh, if you feel like this has been helpful so far, give it a thumbs up. Feel like you want to learn more about building a high income freelance writing business subscribe. So I think I can just flip it over to the wheel. So you should be able to see the wheel now on the screen. Is that true? I have to get a drink. Okay. All right. So everybody can see it now. Allegedly. All right. So I put a bunch of, we have a bunch of names in here of people who responded for coaching or to win the one-on-one coaching for my last thing. So we're a spin the wheel and we're going to see who wins coaching. So everybody's name is in here and basically I'll just spend the wheel high grumpy. I grumpy. Ready? All right. We're spinning the wheel. I collect it is thinking,
All right, now it should do like a little celebration animation. All right. I think it's jus Julie, Julie, I can never say her name. Right. But you won, you won coaching. So now you should see it doing all of its confetti and all of its stuff all over the screen. It might be a little slow, but you want, and so that what's on our live students, I'll reach out to you to set up the coaching. So I'll send you a message and we'll hop on a call and we'll figure it out. Hold on. Let's see. All right. I'm going to spin the wheel one more time because I'm feeling feisty and I'm just, I'm going to spin it one more time and we're going to see what happens. So hold on. We're waiting for it to do his thing. All right. I'm gonna spend it one more time.
[Inaudible]
All right. I think it's going to stop on Carly. Carly. You're the second winner. All right. So those are our two winners this time, and I will reach out to you and send you messages and it's recorded on here. So like no one can falsify that they won. Coach co-chair is all, it's all the live stream. All right. So hold on. Let me see if I can go back here and switch it out. All right. So now you should be able to see me and not the wheel, but w we'll do this again. We'll do a new thing. I like the wheel a lot. I think the wheel is fun. I used to watch a live stream where they did the wheel all the time. So we'll bring the wheel back out at some point and we'll do it again. But congratulations to those who want coaching, I will reach out to you.
I'll send you a message. We'll set it up. Let's see. Any other questions, any other things we want to go over? Just like last FYI. It's okay. Number one. It's okay. To just say, you're not a fit for a project. It's okay. To get examples before you write for someone, most of the time your edits are going to be good and your edits are going to make more sense for the type of content they're creating most of the time, that's it. Sometimes you get bad stuff. And that usually is like a fit problem in the very beginning it's that we didn't do enough research and didn't get enough information from the very beginning to see if we kind of match with that person. And another thing is sometimes we end up thinking it's a fit. And then we ended up working with them and is a problem.
But we end up learning what works for us and what doesn't and what types of things we're going to avoid and what types of things we really want to like, you know move toward like things that people say on calls where we're like, yes, this is usually your thoughts about the content. It's usually your thoughts about like, why they're creating it. Why content makes a difference, how to attract their audience or really reach their audience. That kind of good stuff. Cool. All right. Any other questions? Any other things we can go over while we did the live stream? We did our coaching. We'll bring the wheel out some other time. Oh, if you have had rough client edits, let me know below, like, if you're watching the replay of this and you have a comment and you're just like, oh my gosh, this one time I had rough edits.
Here's how I handled it. Let me know. Cause I'm always interested in how other writers handle the situations because sometimes they can be awkward and uncomfortable when you're just like, what is happening. So let me know below, like how did you handle it? Was there a time where you handled it really well? And you were just like, yeah, I said these things or I did these things. So drop a comment, let me know. Cool. It looks like we don't have any more questions. Just so you know, we also have a new thing, so you can go to I don't think I made a thing yet, but you can go to Mandy ellis.com/question, and you can submit a question to be answered on the live stream. So we, it could be a topic where we could like, Hey, will you make a live stream about this topic?
Or you can say like, oh man, I had a question on the live stream. And you know, you didn't answer it or like, you're going about your day. And you're like, oh man, I have a question. And I'm not, you know, I need some help pop it in there and we'll answer it on the live stream. Like, we'll start popping those into we'll start popping those into our live stream. Oh, there you go. Yeah. We'll, we'll start adding those in. Cause I know I get a lot of questions in my inbox. And I'm starting to, I started to be snowed under by them. So I think I'm going to have to I'm going to start switching those over from my inbox to answering on live stream. Plus I feel like there's a lot of questions that I get where writers email me and they're like, I'm embarrassed to ask this, but, and it's like a question I get all the time.
It's like a question that lots of other writers deal with. So if you have a question that you want to be answered, you can also submit your question anonymously. If you're feeling kind of nervous or you feel like other people will judge you. I'm hoping that this is like our live stream is basically like a judgment free zone. Like we're just, we're just stating the facts of like, this is not a fit. This does work. We're not saying like you you're dumb, like no, nothing like that. So if you have a question, pop it in there. Cool. All right. I hope everybody has a good Friday. Thanks for joining. Thanks for everybody who submitted to when the coaching we'll do the coaching thing again. Oh my gosh. You can submit a question. If you want, use your little toe beans and you can type it out. I will get in touch with people who want coaching, but thank you for joining me. Have a good Friday and I will see you next Friday. Bye.
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