How Freelance Writers Can Move From Hourly to Per Project Pricing
Charging by the hour was one of the main ways I kept myself from growing my business and income, and truly understanding the value of my work. This week, we're talking about how you can shift from hourly rates to per project pricing in order to increase your income, prove the value of your content to your clients, and stop working like a 9-to-5'er tracking every dime of your time
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We're starting with a live stream or with a live stream with AUP day today. Cause Charlotte looks like a sad stuffed animal and she just <laugh> looks what's wrong with you. Why are you so sad? Hi, Vicky. Welcome in. So we're gonna talk about how to move from hourly to per project pricing. Let me know. I have a new mic. So on my end it looks a little. Hi. So hold on. I'm gonna turn it down a little bit. So let me know how it's working. Let me know how things are turning out. Oh, Charlotte laid down. All right, we'll do one trio and then we're gonna get started on our stuff because everybody's wrapped up. They look super cute. All right. Ready buddy. Here you go. Good boy. Here you go.
Here you go, buddy. Good job. All right, everybody got a snack. Everybody's ready to go. Hello? Okay. So we're gonna talk about how to go from hourly to per project pricing. Let me know how the mic is going. Cuz like on my end it looks a little high, but I turned it down so we'll see how it works. <Laugh> okay. We are gonna talk about why hourly. Yeah, it's better now. Okay. Let me turn it just like a little bit. Okay. I gave a little more of a pinch down, so it's in the green now. Hey Annie. Welcome in the P. Say hello? The little peppermints they're like we still have sad grown over there. We call her EOR because she just sits like that. She just sits like a sad little, little animal. All right. You ready? You go Ben. All right. Can you gimme high five? You gotta gimme high five. Can you get your arm out of there? High five. Come on. Good girl. Close enough. Oh, don't fall off. Don't fall off. We don't want you to fall away from your com your little ultra comfort spot. Actually. I wonder if I can. There you go. All right.
Still high now. It's good. All right, I'm gonna give it a pinch down. All right. I gave it another pinch down just to see cuz sometimes I get excited and I talk loudly, which I'm sure no one who's ever been on this livestream. Like hasn't seen me talk really loudly or get really excited about something. So let's talk about things. Let's talk about hourly and per project pricing. So let's talk about the shift and let's talk about how we got there. So a lot of times what ends up happening is we start off with our freelance writing stuff and we think it's like a nine to five job. Right? We end up thinking that we should do hourly because everybody that we've worked for before, even if we were getting salary, let's say we had to log our hours for certain projects. It's just like this natural thing that we do coming from a nine to five.
Oftentimes the freelancers that I don't see like that they don't have a problem with this. Right. The freelancers sounds good. Okay, cool. Yay. Great. So the freelancers that I've seen that haven't had a problem doing per project pricing were ones that really didn't do a ton of nine to five work or they weren't like conditioned working in hourly stuff all the time. They ended up doing different types of jobs or they just realized really early on, unlike me that you should not do hourly pricing. So when you're making the shift, it's part of this shift away from the mentality of working a nine to five where someone's always tracking your time or always tracking the hours that you spend on specific tasks or oh, it didn't, autoplay, that's a bummer. Okay. Well that's why we, sometimes we start with AUP date just because sometimes YouTube is doing its own thing or whatever.
Okay. So when we're doing this shift, right, we're moving from the mentality of working for somebody else or working in a nine to five to working for ourselves. And that means we have to pay for a lot of things that our nine to five was paying for or a lot of things that we just have to pay for as business owners. So that would be health insurance. I have business in insurance, so that's another one. There's things that we don't get paid for, right? Like marketing or admin stuff. We also have to pay for taxes, right? We have to make sure we do our quarterly taxes or we get all of our tax stuff figured out. We have to pay accountants. Sometimes we have to pay for all of the software and tech that runs our business. We have to pay for memberships or subscription or courses or learning materials.
There's so many different things that we have to pay for as a freelance writer, right? We things that maybe our employer like some employers, right? They pay for continuing education or they pay for office supplies or, you know, when something happens, then you just, you tell your employer, like this thing broke and low hold to get a new one. But when you're a freelance writer, you gotta replace everything, yourself, office equipment, everything welcome, Getty, happy you can join us from the car dry safely. <Laugh> so when we're kind of doing all of our stuff, right, we have to remember all of the expenses and all the things that we end up having to pay for with our freelance writing business, which is why hourly is cutting you by only the time that you're working. Right? So you're only getting paid for the hours.
You are working on a specific project. You're not getting money to pay for all the other things you have to pay for as a freelance writer. So when we do per project, we end up being able factor that in. We end up being able to factor in all the things that not only the value of our work, right? The quality that we're bringing to the table, the types of example, like our eclipse that we're bringing to the table, our experience, our knowledge, all that good stuff, our niche expertise. We're not just bringing that, but it's to also like running a business and getting paid for like the value of the project to the client and getting paid for all the other good stuff that we're doing right as bringing our writing to the table, but also factoring in all of the things that we have in our business to make it run.
Right. So like if we were working at, you know, regular, hourly rates, like let's say it was like 25 or $35 an hour or $15 an hour as a full-time person that doesn't pay for all the things that we need to pay for as freelance writers, it just is like, so just small portion. So even if we were working hourly, it'd have to be much higher. But when we do per project, it's easier to kind of factor that stuff in. And it's also something that we can remember as we're pricing our projects. So when you're thinking about hourly, when you think about the shift or why you need to do per project, I think it's really important to remember that hourly oftentimes is like, they're paying you for 40 hours a week. They're paying you to do that work. They're also sometimes giving you help with insurance, right?
Like sometimes employers pay a hundred percent of your insurance or they end up, you know, you get paid time off, which you don't get as a freelance writer or you end up getting 401k contributions or you end up getting all these D other things that come with being a full-time employee. Those have to be factored in. You still have to retire someday. You still have to fill, you know, you still have to have health insurance. You still have to do all of these different things. As a business owner, right. We're gonna have our freelance writing business. It's, you're a small business owner. So you have to make sure you have all these things there. So the shift is your moving away from just getting paid for your work hours. Like that's, I think is the mistake with hourly oftentimes is that we think it's just like, oh, I'll just raise my hourly rate.
I'll get paid $200 an hour, which you can do after you have enough experience. Right? Like if I have a meeting with someone I usually run meetings at a hundred dollars an hour, but if I'm gonna do consulting or if I'm gonna do some idea generation or we're gonna have some kind of workshop and they end up, it ends up being something where it has to be hourly, then it's 200 bucks an hour, but when you're starting out and kind of getting all your stuff together sometimes it can be really hard to start it a hundred dollars an hour or $200 an hour. And sometimes when, and you're kind of making that shift, it just makes more sense to your clients rather than telling them a huge hourly rate, giving them a per project price. And I always kind of explain it like this.
It's like, when you do a per project price, there's no surprise invoices. There's no guessing on hours. There's no weird back and forth about time sheets, right? Like it's just like, that's the price you pay. It's 50% upfront, 50%, 30 days later. Or if it's a retainer it's due every single month or if it's a milestone project that's due it, every milestone, there's no changes. They can budget really easily for per project price. So if they know the price is $5,000, that's it? There's no like, oh, well, can you work less hours this week? Because our, you know, you, you we've gone over budget or you don't have to give them hourly updates or you don't have to submit a time sheet. You're just like, this is the price, that's it. And you can move on with your life vena. Welcome in. Welcome in.
So I think for me just explaining that it's easier to budget for a per project than for hourly. And I think it's easier to end up with something that is agreeable to both parties. It's easier to negotiate a per project price. Then the guest work of being like, okay, well, if you charge $75 in a hour or a hundred dollars an hour, how many hours do you think it will take? And how, how long will that be? And it's just like, I don't know, like for similar projects it's been this, but it could be less or it could be more and you never really wanna get into that conversation. Right? You never really wanna get into the conversation of like, can you work less hours? Or can you make a guess or get conversation of like that if you work, it takes you less time.
It's less dollars. Like that's not really the point. The content is serving a value and a purpose. It's not that you're paying for time, right? Your clients aren't pay paying for time. They sought out a freelance writer. If they wanted to pay for time, they could have hired someone full time, paid them a contract for three to do 40 hours for three months and gone on with their lives. When they're looking for a freelance writer, like the good clients are looking for that type of content, they see your samples. They end up seeing your portfolio and they're like, I want that content. Well, that content that you're seeing on my site costs this amount of money. Right? That's what the difference is, is like hourly. You get into these weird conversations and I've had these with my students. I've had these with my coaching students and then my freelance writer, wealth lab students, where they're like, someone asked me to, to see if I could like work less hours or asked if I could, you know, if it was, I worked faster, it would be less money.
Or if there was some way to cut the hours, it's like, no, like that's not the point. That's not the point. And this has been my biggest transition into changing into per project pricing from hourly is like, you're not paying for my time. You're not buying my time. You're buying my expertise. Right. You're buying like, that's like, let's say right. Let's say you got a meeting with bill gates, or you got a meeting with Elon Musk, or you got a meeting with mark Cuban, or you got a meeting with some big person or like Sarah Blakely. I love her. She runs spanks or while she just sold it, but she created spanks and she's smart and amazing. So let's say you had a meeting with Sarah Blakely. You're not paying, like, let's say you, you had some, I don't know, some sort of magic opportunity where Sarah Blakely fell in your lap and you were like, oh my gosh, please mentor me for an hour.
I have all these questions to ask you about your business. You're not paying for the hour with her. That's never, you're paying for the gold nugget advice. She's gonna give you over that 60 minutes. Right. That's what we're really thinking about. We're are not thinking about paying for the hour of Sarah Blakely's time or mark Cuban's time or whoever kind of thought leader or smart person or leader that you look up to. Right? You're not paying for their time. You're paying for all of the years of experience and knowledge and expertise and trial and error and mistakes and things that they've learned in decades of running a business. That's what we're doing with our content. They're paying for the expertise, the knowledge, all the hard work, all the mistakes all the times, you know, that you really screwed up content. And then you like made your content better.
Cause you learned from all those error or you learn from edits, they're paying for that. They're, that's not really like, I mean, if I was to think about all the hours, like I've been a freelance writer for 10 years. Okay. All the hours that I've spent growing my skills, becoming a better writer, learning who my clients are and who I can best help when my content figuring out what types of con on 10 are best for me, how I should write that, what resonates with the audience, if I were, or the courses or all the things that I have done through my career, my hourly rate would be like insane. Right? That would be insane. I've spent all this time. It's been really important to me to end up getting more knowledge and more expertise and learning from mistakes and spending all the time. Right in.
And if you think about that principle, right, that principle of like 10,000 hours makes you an ex expert, right? Is that I think it's 10,000 hours. So over the last 10 years, I think I forget what the math is. But if you work 40 hours a week, I think it is 10 years. If you work 40 hours a week, that's 10,000 hours over 10 years. So if you were gonna charge for that to be an expert, like that would be crazy on an hourly basis, right. That's why we're basing it on the value that we bring to the table, the value of the content to the client, the value of all the things that they're getting out of it, right? Like your brain, they're paying for the value of the things you store in your noodle so that you can help them with their content so that you can make their content better.
And hourly is like, let me buy some time. And then you can just do that work in that time. Nope. That's backwards. Like we're missing the whole point. And plus let's say you're working hourly. I'm not going to get paid less money for being better, faster at my job. That's insane. Like it's insane. Right? Think about that. If you were work hourly, even if you were like, even if you had an insane hourly rate, like let's say you were charging a thousand dollars an hour, right. It still would be, <laugh> crazy for you to, to do that. Like, that's just, I, to me, that's just crazy. Like why would I do that? I'd rather just give you a flat price, tell you this is how much it costs and move on my life. I just think that when we think about hours, we're dicing the wrong tomato.
Like we're in the wrong kitchen. We're starting with the wrong premise. Okay. So five years is 10,000 hours. Okay. So at this point I have 20,000 more plus or minus hours because I definitely didn't work 40 hours a week. Most of that time. So, okay. If I was gonna charge for that, that'd be insane. But the deal is the think about it this way. Like when someone is looking to buy your time, they're starting with the wrong principle. They're never buying time. They are buying content. They are buying the thing they're gonna publish. They're buying the thing that makes a difference for their brand. They're buying the thing that attracts their audience and gets them sales and leads and subscribers and likes and clicks and shares and web traffic and all that stuff. They're buying results. They're not buying time. Results. Results are, are per project pricing.
So that's the first point I wanted to make. Oh, I should have my numbers up. Oh, well mistake. All right. Oh, and we have questions today. So we're gonna get to those questions too. I know that people have been waiting for those. So we're definitely gonna get to those two. All right. The second point. Now we're gonna have number two because I've for forgot. Number one, classic. If you feel like this has been helpful so far, give it a thumbs up. If you feel like you wanna learn more about building a high earning six figure freelance writing business subscribe. We're gonna do a quick cup date. All right. Cuz everybody's sitting up and looking super cute. You guys look great today. Yes. I like your grumpy lip. Good job. You have very grumpy lip and it's super adorable. All right, bear. Can you do a 1, 2, 3 dog with me?
Ready? 1, 2, 3 dog. Good job buddy. Good job. There you go. All right. We're gonna see if we can get a high five on camera today. All right, Barry. Ready? Ready? Bob. 1, 2, 3 dog. Oh, you're so close buddy. So close. Let's try one more time. Ready? 1, 2, 3 dog. Good job. All right. Child high five. Good girl. High five other one. Good. All right. I know sometimes she does it off camera, but it takes a while. Hey Marie. Welcome in glad you're able to join us. All right. Let's get to number two. Oh, it would be helpful if I put the right thing on <laugh>. So let's get to number two. So number two is that we are gonna talk about increasing income and we're talking about proving our valued to our clients, right? So these are two to different things. So proving our value to our clients comes through a bunch of different things, right?
It comes through our samples. It comes through all the, the clients that we've worked for before. And it comes through explaining the value of that content to them. So a couple things that I end up doing, right? Like <affirmative>, I'll do a different, a couple different levels. So the first level is like, I don't have any clips. I don't have anything to work with. I just know that I would be writing for these niches and I need to kind of prove value to the client in terms of abilities and expertise in knowing their audience. So if I'm starting out with no clips, which everybody does, I get at this all the time, like, how do I start writing with no clips? Everybody does <laugh> everybody starts writing without any clips. The deal is that I would go in and say, yeah, like I wor you know, I would either tell them about my full-time job experience and how, you know, I'm making the transition into being a freelance writer, working for myself now.
And what I've done that I've think would be helpful, like explain the things I've done as a an employee and how I help the company grow. I would also explain the value of that content for them. So for me, I always have my potential client questions. I always have those at the top. I have word doc as an old lady, I have a word doc inside of a Google doc. I, I don't know. I just, sometimes I just have these like weird old lady things that I just can't get rid of. And I always joke with people as like, I'm like a 95 year old and like a much younger body <laugh>. So anyways, I end up having my word doc with my potential client for questions and below that I have a ton of stats. And if you're on my newsletter, if you get my weekly newsletter with freelance writer tips, I sent out one with like 10 different stats that you can use to show the value of content.
Like email marketing gets like 4200% return rate or something is crazy on ROI. And then like content marketing blog posts, web traffic, all these things that our content contributes to. You could use these stats to say, like, I know that if you do a drip campaign, this is the ROI you're gonna get. I know that if you do this type of content, this is the ROI that you're gonna get, or this is the kind of brand awareness you can get. And when you pull these stats, your value of the content while explaining, right, what you're bringing to the table, how you can help them, how your skills can help them. So that's kind of level one, right? We don't have any clips. We're kind of relying on our background experience. If you didn't have a full-time job that has to do with writing, I would go in with explaining how you can help their audience and how you can solve their problems and how you would help them get re results.
So you would explain, I know your audience struggles with these things. I know you as a company, struggle with these things, and I know that I can help you get these kinds of results because content does this or that. And I know that we're striving to create quality content that actually gets results. The second level would be kind of like a mid tier Lance writer. You've been freelancing for a while. You have clips, right? You can still use those stats, but you can also use stats that you get from past clients. You can use some testimonials. You can use, like someone said, like we got a 750% return rate working with Marie or working with Des or Getty or Vicky or Annie. Right. That's who's on here. Okay. Sometimes I forget. I'm sometimes I have trouble in they anyways. So then we can kind of talk through that.
So as a mid-tier freelancer, we have clips to work with. We can show them that, but we also can have our back pocket, right? Our stats in our back pocket that are either from client projects or they are from, I like HubSpot and demand metric. They have a ton of stats about content marketing, email, mark, all the things that we help with as freelance writers. Then we can also explain the same stuff as tier one, right? We have deeper knowledge of our target audience, right. Of the audience that we write for, for these clients. We have a deeper knowledge of our clients in general and what they struggle with. And maybe we've gotten some results. And usually by the time we get to mid tier, we Haven enough stuff to go back on. So let's say your clients don't end up giving you any stats or information, right.
You can always use a tool like Uber suggest or S SCM rush or Moz, M Moz to go back and look at your stuff, just put your URLs in there for your clips. Or put the company in there and see that like, okay, I was working with them from March to April or March to July and their website traffic increased because we were publishing contract content regularly. And it increased by this much. There are plenty of backend tools that you can use to get metrics on your own end. Like it'll show you likes and shares and comments. What platforms were best. It'll show you traffic, it'll show you all these different metrics that you then can pull for your own work. Right? So instead of always asking your clients, like how did this perform? Because sometimes that can be sticky. Sometimes your clients will really want to keep that stuff internally.
They don't wanna share that out on the internet. They don't want come competitors to get that information, right? So I think if you kind of use these other tools to just look up how your clips are performing or how their website's performing or how that social post did, that's really helpful when you have stuff to work with as a mid-tier freelancer. The, so the third one is you're at like expert level, you've been freelancing for a long, long time. You have a huge amount of under your belt. You have like hundreds of clips. This is a lot easier because you're proving value in that. Like, you have really deep niche expertise, you know, their audience, you know, that, that your client struggles with ABC, you have like super deep long term knowledge of all of these things. You have tons of clips. So when they say like, send some examples, you can send like 50, if you want, even though stick to like three or four, depending on what they're asking for.
So sometimes people end up asking for like five different types of clips, right? They wanna see a blog post, a reported article, case study ebook and a downloadable. So pick two to five, two to four for each category. But as we're kind of going along, right, when we're an expert freelancer, we have so much more in like marinated and deep knowledge of our audience and who we're writing for and how to help them and what has worked for past clients and what didn't. So that's where we're kind of pricing on value there. That's why we're going. Or that's why we're proving our value through is like that someone it's coming to us because we become an expert in their niche. We have published a lot of different things. We've worked for a lot of different clients. We've done a lot of different types of work they're coming to us because we have like, we're like, yeah, I know sometimes, you know, real estate companies think X works, but really Y works better.
We have enough information experience and writing for that Audi to know that like, this works better than that. Or, and we can explain why, and we can actually give super, super helpful advice. And that's how you're kind of proving value is that you can already see like, Nope, I know you think it's Y but it's actually a, or I can explain to you why and how this works. You have a lot more tools in your tools shed by then, right? That means that as we prove our value to clients, then we can increase our income. Right? The more clients we get, the better results we get from their work or the better our content gets, then it's easier to increase our income. Right. So as we kind of move along per project is a lot easier to increase our income than yes. Did you than hourly, would you like to submit a complaint? I see you're over there being sassy, being a sassy. MOSY all right. Ready? Both. 1, 2, 3
Dog. Good job, buddy. All right, Charlie, are you ready? Hi. Five. Good job. Other one other one. Good girl. All right, bill. You ready? 1, 2, 3 dog. Good job. You're on fire today, buddy. High five other, one other one. Nope. The other one. This one. Good job. Good girl.
All right. I wish you would just like sit back a little bit so people could see you do your high. You always wanna like sit forward. All right. Gr chin. So when we're kind of moving up and increasing our income, it's a lot easier to increase our income with per project pricing than hourly. Right. Hourly is really much diff more difficult to do when you're trying to do it. Like, okay, I'm charging $25 an hour. Maybe just go up $10 an hour. Oh my gosh. I can't go to $50 an hour. Like, it's just this, like I said, like, you're dicing the wrong tomato. You're in the wrong farm. You're in the wrong kitchen. Like you're, you're in the wrong place. The deal is when you're doing per project, then you can kind of figure out like, okay, last time I did this ebook and it either got a ton of, or it ended up taking more time than I thought, or I realized it's a much more valuable piece of content to my particular ideal clients.
Then you can raise the rate. Like there have been times where I've doubled the rates of things, just because I was like, oh my gosh, this was, this is not like I am getting bitter at this price. And when you charge by the hour, right? Like raising your hourly rate is just like such a small increase and the hours that you only have so many hours to work. Right. So if you're thinking about your schedule as like, I only have so many hours, okay. Let's raise my hourly rate by $25 an hour. Right? Like, that's just so small for the amount of work and time and effort and expertise that you're actually bringing to the table. When you do per project pricing. Like, for me, there's been times where I've just doubled my prices overnight because I realize the value of the work. Like I realized the value of the work, how much time, like it took me way more effort or way more time than I thought.
I also like the time thing, just as like a sweet, like a little side caveat, I don't actually track my time very well because it's not important to me. <Laugh> so like, sometimes I'm like, oh, it took more time than I thought, but it's just like, it's more tracking it over. Like it took me, you know, like over the course of this many days, rather than this many hours each day. So just caveat, I'm not good at tracking hours. I just think it's not helpful. So as you're going along, it's a lot easier to raise your prices per project. Plus when you're doing per project, you can have a minimum with hours. You're like, oh, I would work a minimum of 20 hours. Well, okay. Then you're like, then your project minimum is based on you having to work that many hours. But if you're doing per project, you can end up saying my project minimum is $2,000 and you don't have to say like, well, that's 80 hours worth of work or whatever.
It's just $2,000. And let's say it takes you less time. That's great. You now made a really good internal hourly rate or you made a really good rate for your business. So for me, I think increasing your income is just a lot easier with per project pricing. There's so many different opportunities that you can go through with per project to add things on. Hey, I noticed that my other clients were doing really well with an ebook. Those were getting a lot of downloads and subscribers. I think you should add that. That's a great way to add something on and you can do it with per project price. So you just add it on to the list of things you're doing in the project. But with hourly, you get into this weird thing of like, well, how many extra hours would that be or how, you know, it's just, I don't like it.
So as we're going along, it's easier to increase our rates with increase with hourly. And I've talked to different people about this. Like I get different people in my inbox or people I've known over the years that were doing hourly and their income just goes up at this super slow rate. It's just, you only have so many hours. You only have so much effort you can per put in before you burn out. Like, it's just so slow. But with per project, you get this really jump up and you're really basing it on what you're bringing to the table and the value that you bring to your clients, right? And your samples and your work history and your client your past clients and any results you've gotten, that is just a, much more to me, healthy way to look at it rather than being like, okay, I have to work this many hours and I have to be a little rat and run around to do the race.
Like I just don't think that helpful. So that's number two. And then we're gonna get to number three. So hold on. There we go. Now we have number three. Okay. Last thing we're gonna go over is we wanna kind of think about our switch from per project pricing, right? So with our per project pricing, we don't have to sit around and track ourselves all the time. You actually get to focus on the work. I know this is a silly concept, right? But like there's times where people are like so focused on the hours that they're spending. They're so like, okay, well this, I can only spend 10 hours. So I have to work really quickly, cuz I know this work actually takes more time. That's garbage for me when I'm not tracking hours. I actually just pay attention to doing good work. When you're in your nine to five, you're like, oh it's 5:00 PM.
Somewhere. It's time to go get margaritas. Like there's this difference? I think in mindset. And I think for a lot of times, when we get stuck in this employee mindset where someone else is taking care of marketing, someone else is taking care of growing the business. Someone else is taking care of other parts, right? Invoicing or whatever. When you kind of run your own business, you have to get in the mindset of like, you need to do quality work. That's how you get paid. It doesn't matter how many hours it takes. It doesn't matter if it's less hours or more hours, you need to do quality work, the quality and the results it gets and what people like, what your clients are happy with. That's what you get paid for. That's the focus. So instead of tracking all of your dimes, right? Like tracking your time, every single dime that you get and worrying about time spent, you need to worry about quality.
This is the biggest, like for me, that I've seen with students and that scene with other freelance writers is like, they're so worried about how much time they spend on something rather than the quality of it. Oh my God. I spent, I spent two weeks, I spent 80 hours working on this article and it turns out like that. They hated it. Well, yeah. Cuz you're worried about how much time you spent on it. You didn't pay attention to the examples that they gave you. You didn't pay attention to the past stuff they published. You didn't pay attention to the brief they gave you didn't pay attention to the details of the piece. You're like worrying about other hours. That's a big mistake. You have to worry about the quality of the piece. And I think when you kind of start equating hours to like, or hours, when you equate hours spent to the quality of something, that's a mistake, a right? Like, so if I was carving furniture, right? So like, let's say I, you came to me and I was gonna carve a custom piece of furniture for you. Like, like like like a little storage chest or something.
And I sent you some examples and I'm like, this is what it'll look like when it's done. And you're like, I love it. The hummingbirds are adorable. Well, let's say I turned it into you and there's no hummingbirds on it. And you're like, what the? I paid for the hummingbirds. And you're like, yeah, but it took me three months that took me this many hours. It took me forever to do this thing. And then like, I didn't have time left because we ran out of hours and then someone's like, I don't give a. I want the hummingbirds. Right. That's the problem. It's like, if I were to come to you and say like, oh yeah, I spent all these hours on it. You don't care if you were my client and I'd carved this piece of furniture for you. You wouldn't care how much time I spent on it.
If it didn't have the thing that you wanted, the thing that gave it, the quality or the likeness or the excitement or the thing that you wanted to buy it for. Right? Like that doesn't matter. It's the same thing with our content, our clients, aren't coming to us saying like, yes, I just need a blog post. That's not even the even red light clients. This is something really important. So write this down. Even red light clients are looking for a specific type of content. They're not just like, I need a blog post. They have an idea of what it is. Usually sometimes what they tell you is I'll know when I see it, which is garbage as well. But everybody has an idea of what that content should be like. Like everybody kind of has a general idea of how it should look or how it should feel or how it, the tone and style should be. And if you don't do that, then it it's worthless. It's not helpful. And the same thing, like I think the fur.
Thing. Yeah. Ooh furniture. Yeah. I think the furniture analogy makes sense. Or like if you were like another good example, I think of custom as like a wedding dress, let's say you were getting a custom wedding dress done. Like you didn't just buy something off the rack. You were gonna go get a custom wedding dress or even this is kind of the same thing as like home renovation. So like you have a kitchen in, and you're like, I want quarts countertops, or I want stainless steel on the island and quarts on the rest of the countertops. And they did it backwards. Right. They made your island quarts and the rest of the thing, stainless steel, you're not paying for the hours that they spent installing it. You're paying for the end product of that. You wanted stainless steel on the island and you wanted quarts on the rest of the countertops.
That's what you're paying for. And I think that's the mistake is like, when we come from this nine to five mentality or we come from an hourly mindset, we're like, but I spent all this time. Nobody cares. Nobody cares. This is <laugh>. This took me so long to figure out cuz I was just like, oh man, like I spent all this time, you know, they're not even appreciating or all this taught. No one cares about the time. It's the difference between someone saying like, I want be your toe. If you didn't do toe, you know? And they wanted toe and you did beige, like that's the problem. When you start worrying about hours and you start worrying about like silly things, like how much time you spent on something. Like I just, of course we have limits. Like let's just put that caveat, right?
Like we have limits about how much time we can spend on something. But the point is that they're looking for a certain result. You didn't bake a vanilla cake when someone wanted chocolate. Right. They're paying for the result. Yes. Hello. Would you like to lodge a complaint? You're like all fill complaints recently. So keep that in mind. Someone's always paying for a product, even red light clients. Even when you have a client that is like not a good fit for you. It's just a red light for you. They have an idea of what they want that thing to be. And they're, they're giving you money to do that. That has nothing to do with time. It has to do with quality. Okay. Remember that if you pay for the hummingbird or you pay for the stainless steel or you pay the courts or you pay for the custom wedding dress or you pay for a custom whatever they're paying for the custom, they're not paying for like the 58,000 hours. It took you to do it. So remember that. All right, I'm gonna do AUP date cuz someone's being grumpy. You guys are, you just are just Bo just over there looking
Like the best little geriatric bear. All right, Betty. Ready? <laugh> ready. Ready? 1, 2, 3 dog. Good job buddy. All right, Charlotte, you gotta back up. You gotta back up first, back up, back up. It's over here. Back up, back up. <Laugh> back up, back up. Go over here. Come over here. There we go. All right, Charlotte. Let's show everybody your skills. Ready? High five girl, high five. The other one other one. Good job.
You guys have no idea how long it took me to teach her that we've Charlotte's about to turn nine. Her birthday's on Valentine's day. So she's about to turn nine and we've had her for let's see, six years now. And it took me ready, both 1, 2, 3 dogs. Good job. It took me all these years to get her to do that. Hi bye. Good job. Other one. Good girl. She's one of those dogs that like she doesn't like it when you touch her paw. So it's hard to clip her nails and it's hard to like when she gets thorns or pricks in her paws, it's hard to get 'em out. Cuz she just hates when people touch her feet. But now that I've started doing all this high five stuff, now we're in, we're in good shape. So it's a big deal.
All right. If you feel like this has been helpful so far, give it a thumbs up. If you feel like you and more about building a high earning freelance writing business subscribe, let's get to questions. I have questions in the hopper. Let's get to those while we're being chatty. If you have questions, you can put 'em in the chat too. And I'll answer those. But we have some that came in that I wanna make sure we get to. So Diana had a long question and I'm just gonna read it a little bit and then I'm gonna delete some of it. So wanna make sure we have the whole question and I'm gonna delete some, so it's not this giant block on here. All right. So she says, first off I'm telling every writer I know about you and the great live stream you have. Thank you Diana. So I'm gonna pop that off and then leave the rest of her question. So go in here.
All right. This also still a super long question. So we're gonna make it a little bit. There we go. Okay. This is actually multiple different questions, right? So can you please discuss retainers? Isn't an agreement for a certain amount of stories or a blog blog post per month in essence, a retainer. When is it worth negotiating or retainer? All right. So let's get to the first per art first, before I start reading the rest, cuz it's a lot. So for me, retainers are two different things. So your retainer is yes. You say, I wanna do four blog posts or they, your client says, I want four blog posts a month. And then you say, okay, cool. That costs $2,000 or 5,000 or whatever the specs are. Let's say like we'll just cut it in the middle. Like that costs $3,000 a month. So someone wants four blog posts a month.
It's $3,000 a month and you have an initial 90 day contract. They pay $3,000 a month for next three months. That's one retainer. Another retainer is that someone paid you 50% up front and 50% on delivery or 50%, 30 days later. And that retainer covers other things like milestone things. I to sneeze, Ugh, that was quite sneeze. The other retainer is 50% up front, 50% later. And that, for that, it's basically like if you have a clump of content, that's not as regular right. Four blog posts a month is more regular, you know, every month it's gonna be four blog posts, but a different type of retainer is someone's asking for two case studies, an ebook, a white paper and four thought leadership pieces. And then you break that up over the next, however many months they wanna publish it or work on it.
And then you can do 50% upfront, 50% later. I like retainers for blog posts where it's monthly because blog posts are put out every month. And then if I have different types of content, I like 50 50. And I think that just makes more or sense because when you're working on different types of content, it's not really the same, right? Like it's not it's not the same as the regular of the blog post. So I like 50, 50. Sometimes what ends up happening is people are like, yeah, the whole project costs $10,000 or $9,000 and we'll just do $3,000 a month. And I'll just do the content when I, you can do that too. All right. The next part is what is it worth? Negotiating a retainer. Always, always. And I also think that when you're doing retainers, oftentimes you're sending a proposal.
So you should be talking about rates before you ever send a proposal. Right. You should ask someone what their budget is or did they have an idea in mind for you know, the piece like what's the word count? They're like, okay, we're looking for a thousand words for the blog post or we're looking for a four to five page white paper, or we're looking for a three to five page case study. They have an idea. And you're like, okay, did you have a budget for that? That you should talk about before you ever send a proposal? If they don't have a budget or they don't really know what their thing again, in terms of pricing, then you price the project, how you would normally price it, send them a proposal and then they can figure out whether that's in their budget or not. And then you can kind of negotiate it.
But honestly, like most of the time when you're working with people, it shouldn't be this huge thing where it's like negotiating it at different phases. Like you should find out what their budget is before you're ever, you know, you're really getting a proposal. I kind of, I've always like kind of applied this to my business is like, I don't want any surprises. There should be no surprise, hourly invoices. There should be no surprise. Like you, we don't know what we're doing or there should, you should, you know always get examples from your clients about content that they want. Like, what do you like, what does it look like? Then you can deliver more of what they want. Right. I don't think there should be any surprises. So there shouldn't be this weird thing where you get in a situation where someone's like, oh my gosh, that's double the price than what we thought.
And like, okay, usually you get in that situation by not asking about budget or asking about whether or they had a specific idea of cost in mind. But honestly for negotiating retainers, you can always do that. You can negotiate anything. And it's more about knowing your boundaries of what you will and won't accept. Will you take 50% on your work? Like, let's say you say that work is 10,000 to dollars and they're like, we have $5,000. Like, are you willing to cut your work in half? Probably not. <Laugh> the negotiating thing is more about boundaries. Like you're just saying yes or no to the things that make sense for you. It's not about like losing everybody should win in a negotiation. Like they should be happy about the price that they're getting for the work and the type of work they're getting. And you should not feel bitter about the price that you're getting paid for the work.
All right. Next part is, should you bother doing it with clients who already give you a predictable monthly amount of work? Yeah. So if you're, if you, everybody does things different, sometimes it's set up as a retainer and sometimes it's not some people want you to invoice every single month, even though you've already like, even though it's regular work, it just depends on the client. But yeah, if you have like a regular amount of work, like X amount of blog posts per month, or they want a case study every other month. Yeah. I think a retainer makes the most sense. And then she says, I'm gonna have to delete some of this so that we can, I can see it all. Okay. And then she says, do you boost, or do you use it to boost assignments in sluggish clients? Like, no, I use a retainer for the amount of work I'm doing.
I use it regular stuff. So retainers are either I have a big project and it's like, there's a bunch of different types of content in there. And then I end up like splitting it up 50 50, or you could say that whole project is $9,000. That's $3,000 a month for the next three months, whatever. But I don't ever try to like force my clients to do a retainer if they don't want. And I also don't do a retainer to like boost anybody who's slow. This is one of the problems with invoicing. This isn't a retainer problem. This is an invoice problem. The problem with people that pay slow or pay late is that you didn't set it up ahead of time. What the expectations are. So for example, when you do a retainer, you say, I invoice on the first of the month, it's due mid month.
Right? And then let's say the content goes in at the end of the month. So if they Don pay you by mid month, they're not getting any content. That's the agreement. They pay you for your content. You give them the content. So you don't use to boost the sluggish clients. You set expectations of what that is. Right. And the same thing, like every client call, I have, I set those expectations, Hey, if we're gonna do a blog, like let's say, we're gonna do blog posts per month. And it's a retainer for X amount of months, whatever. Then I tell them like, yeah, here's how it works. I invoice you on the first of the month, it's due mid month, right. Net 14. And then I, you get content at the end of the month. And then if I'm doing a 50 50, I used to do 50% upfront, 50% at the, when I finish, you know, the project.
But sometimes project X would last six to eight months and it's way too long to wait for payment. And then they forget, or accounting moves on like, there's this whole thing. So I started doing 50% upfront, 50%, 30 days later sometimes you can end up doing 50% upfront, 50%, 45 days later, or 50% due at a certain milestone. But honestly those need to be set before at the very beginning, before you sign anything, everybody needs to be in agreement that this is how it works and it's in your contract. So I don't ever use, I'm not looking for leverage to like <laugh> to like trick my clients into doing something quicker or, you know, prod them along. Like I'm always looking for fit. When I have a discussion with a client, it should always be like, we are a fit. Like we understand each other, we're getting off on a good, like, we get it.
When I say this is what, how I work. They're like, that totally makes sense. I'm not looking for like, <affirmative> ways to like move people along, you know, with a hot rod. Like that's not my thing. I just think that's not a fit, right? Like let's say I work with a client and they're a slow payer or they end up being up some kind of issue. Right. We're just not a fit for each other. That's what I end up coming to is I'm just like, we're just not a fit the way that you work and the way that I work, we don't mesh. Then I move on. That's it. Do I try to get new clients to set up retainers right off the bat? No, it just depends on the work. The work is usually that you are doing whatever they're asking. So I have an initial 90 day contract that I do with clients because found that's most effective.
Like the first month is like, all right, let's get our process in place. Let's figure things out. Let's get it all together. The second month is refining that process, getting all of the kinks out and getting all of the edits and figuring our stuff out and like refining. And the last month is like, do we actually work well together? Is this actually working? Do we wanna continue working together? Is the content working the way you thought, are you getting what you like? That kind of stuff for me, the three month thing makes the most sense. And I do that in terms of packages. So I don't try to get them to set up retainers off the bat. But if they say I wanna do blog posts, we're thinking for blog posts a month or whatever I tell them like, yeah, the way I usually use blog posts is four month for three months.
We'll see how that works out. And I tell them that exact process. I just told you, month one month, two month three, I don't set up retainers just based on like, just wanting retainers. I set them up based on the type of work that it is. So if it's something where I end up doing like a case study of white paper, whatever that is, that's not blog posts or not reported articles or not regular thought leadership. Then I end up changing pricing and strategy on that. Like, I kind of go with the flow of what, what the actual work is. It's not like secure the retainer, secure the retainer, like the way it is, is like, it makes the most sense to me to do certain projects, certain ways. And that's just, what has worked with me, worked for me as a, a freelancer.
And you asked about negotiating retainers. We already did that gave nitty great details. We already did that. So here's the deal. I don't think forcing clients to do retainers is a good idea. I think you should have a process in place for specific projects like blog posts. You need to do a bunch of them. You can't just like do one or two blog posts and see if it works. It has to be regular. It has to be for a while. And usually it takes like six months or a year for your blog to kind of like figure itself out. And to actually like really get traction with an audience. So the deal is that you need time to figure out like the process and how things are working with that client. And I think forcing someone to do a retainer doesn't make sense.
I think that having a boundary of what you want your work to be for thing, right? Like for me, like thought leadership, reported articles, blog, posts, anything where you're doing regularly every, every month that is most likely set up as a retainer. And the last thing I'll say on that is that we, on the back end, as freelance writers are calling them a retainer, your clients won't always call them a retainer. And a retainer is different than like a lawyer, right? Like a lawyer's on retainer. So that someone's like, Hey, come and do this thing right now. Like you're, I'm paying you to be on retainer. So you can be my lawyer immediately. We're not doing that. That's not, we're not at the Beck and call of being on retainer. Now there are retainers for freelance writers where they are on Beck and call.
I've had friends who get paid thousands of dollars dollars a month where someone's just like, we need this now. Right? So they're basically paying ahead for schedule space and paying ahead for rush work. And that's fine if people wanna do that, that's not my thing, but we're not like at the Beck and call most of the time with people, they're not paying for the idea that like they're getting all like immediate work, you have a regular schedule of things that you do on retainer. Like you figure out early in the month, like these are the content briefs or these are the things that we're gonna end up writing about. Or you start setting up interviews. It's not this thing where like randomly, they're like, we need four blog posts in a week. Hurry up. Like, no, no, these are all like monthly things that you are figuring out.
Okay. Other questions from Celia. So Celia says, my question is about creating a website. That's a big mental block for me. What's a first step in getting the ball rolling. Or can you have a top notch portfolio in lieu of a website? So let's tackle those first. So I have a video on websites. I'll link it below. I'll put it in the description, but I have the questions that you need to answer on your website and on your LinkedIn, I'll put the link below Celia so you can watch that. Or anybody else who's looking to figure out their writer, website and their LinkedIn. There are specific questions you need to answer in order to actually, I think there's a part one and a part two. So anyways, I'll, I'll link those below in the description, but the deal is that you're, I think it's better to get the ball rolling on, on LinkedIn, then create your website.
So your website, LinkedIn, if you have to pick one, I, I think you should do both, but if you have to pick one, I think LinkedIn is more important because that kind of helps with traffic a lot more than setting up a website and people search on there all the time and people when they Google things, LinkedIn profiles come up. So I think LinkedIn's more important. So the first step I would say is work on LinkedIn and then start working on your website to pick something easy. I like Squarespace it's drag and drop. It's really easy to set everything up. You could use wick or Weebly or WordPress. I'm not like a lot of people, a door word, press. I hate it. I got rid of it a long time ago. Cause there's always these updates that break my theme. And like it was in pain in the butt. Yes. Hello. I can see you, but I'm answering a question right now and you're putting a lot of mustard on that hot dog. You're being sassy, but you look like, you just look like a sad Panda. I just can't believe how much sad
Panda you are. I, you have gimme high five. Good job. Ready? Both. 1, 2, 3 dog. Oh buddy. You're so close. Can you get it? Good job.
Good job. May all put it down a little bit. You guys move so much.
You go, you have to get it over here. Okay. Good job. There you go. All right, Bo ready? 1, 2, 3 dog. Paul. It's on your paw. Oh, you just put your paw on it. It's under your paw. It's right here. There you go.
Good job. All right. Okay. So I like something so simple, like square space. It's drag and drop. And like I said, I have videos that go over the questions you need to answer. I think that's really important. So right. Like in lieu, write your portfolio. You can put clips on LinkedIn too. Vicky says she uses raw CS as HTML. Okay, cool. Well, if you, if that's your thing, go for it. I like to drag and drop because I struggle with all the other stuff. So yeah. So if you wanna start with LinkedIn and get that up, you can put samples on there in the featured section, you can write your about copy. You can put in all your experience stuff, which means putting in each of your clients as an experience section you can have a really good tagline on there.
So there's that. And then the website thing I think happens, like it shouldn't happen way later, but if you wanna get the ball rolling, get your LinkedIn up and then start working on your website and your website needs like a really nice homepage and about page in a portfolio, that's it. You don't have to go crazy. The other thing that you're asking about is how do you go about saving sample? Yeah, so I always use links. So, you know, almost everything is published online. Even my print stories are published online. So I grab links to those and I put them into Squarespace. So I upload a photo and then I put a link. And so when someone clicks on the photo of my clip, it links them out to that website. If you don't don't well not if you don't every time your clip comes out online, make sure to take a screen grab of it.
So I use what's it called? Full page screen capture. It might, I think it's called go full page now, but it used to be called full page screen capture. And every time I get a clip, I take like, it takes a of like it takes the whole screenshot of the page. So I go to the link of my clip. I click go full page or full page, screen capture, whatever it's called. It takes a pick of the whole page, right? It's just screenshots the whole page. And I save it as a PDF and I save it as a JPEG in case I need both. And then I always have my clips do this. This is for everybody. Every time you get a clip, every time you get something published online, you need to take a copy of it because people remove things all the time. People change things. People make them look different. You need to have the original. So you always take a copy. And I have them, I save them all. So let's say that I have a clip, which I actually have clips right now that are gonna get taken down, which I already have my screen grabs of. Right. Oh my gosh. You have to go back to your Haba hole. Go back to your Papa hole, please. Thank you. All right.
Now I'm gonna wrap you <affirmative> yeah, I know. You're like, if I just do this thing, I'll get something. I don't have anything.
Okay. Ready? Okay. We're gonna do one more. Oh yeah. Fire shot is another one too. Yeah. Is it is it called Tommy? Is it called go full page or is it called full page? Screen capture? I think it's called go full page right now. Ready buddy? 1, 2, 3 dog. Oh buddy. We're so close.
Let's try again. 1, 2, 3 dog. Good job. All right, Charlie. Ready? I five good girl. Other one other one. Good girl.
All right. Good job everybody. So that way you always have your samples, right? You don't ask anyone for sample. You just keep the links and then if the links go down, because you've done full page, screen capture, you have both a PDF and you have a JPEG. So let's say your link goes down. And when someone goes to your link for your clip, it's not there anymore. That's when you can upload the PDF. So for me I just upload it on the back. End of Squarespace. And then I have a link to it because it's hosted on Squarespace. So <laugh> my gosh blanket. She, I, in the house. I don't know if you guys can see her. Oh, no, you can't. She's wearing the blanket over here. Yeah. So then I upload the PDF to Squarespace. Squarespace creates a link because it's hosted on Squarespace ready when she, you three dog. Good job, bud. And then I have a link to share with anybody that wants a link rather than just sharing the PDF. So if I have something that's only available on PDF, like I don't even think I have that anymore because I put it all on Squarespace. So I have a link. People like links better than sending attachments. So anytime that can use a link, that's better. Anytime you can upload it to your website and then the website will give you the link to that thing. That's always better.
That's fire sh okay, hold on. And then she says, what Vicky, I'm gonna get to your question after this. Cause I see 'em in there. So she says, what's your system for keeping my portfolio updated every time I tell this to everybody, all my coaching students, all my core students, everybody, every time I get a clip, every time something's published, I go to that page and I get a full page screen capture of it, or I, you know, you can use fire shot, but you get the screen, grab of it, save that somewhere on your computer. And then what I do is I go into square space. I upload the image, whatever the image was on that thing, right? That case study or that white paper or that email or the blog post, I upload the image. I put the link to my clip in there.
I tag it. So I tag it as PropTech or I tag it as whatever niche it is. And I tag what it is. So it's a PropTech case study and that way people can search my portfolio. And I do that every time, every time I get a clip, I do it immediately. Cuz if I don't, I will forget. So every, every time I get a clip, every time something's published, I go do that. And if something hasn't been published yet, I check in with my client. I send a reminder email, Hey, when is that going up? Or has it gone live? Then I get the clip. I do this every time immediately. <Laugh> I have other friends who just like do it in clumps. Like every month they upload all their clips from the month or they do it every or three months. I do it immediately.
I will forget two when I do it immediately. That means my website is constantly getting updated, which is why when you Google my stuff, right? Like when you Google Austin freelance writer, or I think real estate writer and a couple other things, when you Google those mine is like the first freelance writer site. It's cuz I'm constantly updating my site. I don't wait. I think that's really important for SEO. It's really important for getting new clients. It's really important for being found in your niche. So do it immediately get the image, put it up there, link, put the link to where your clip is. I use tags cuz my portfolio is searchable and my portfolio is searchable because my portfolio is actually a blog. So if you go to my Squarespace site, if you go to Mandy ellis.com and you go to my portfolio, that's actually a blog.
So my clips are showing up as a blog. They just link out. So rather than linking to an internal post, they link out to where the clip is and they're tagged cuz you can tag blog posts, they're all tagged there so you can search them. All right, Celia. I hope that was how helpful I think you just popped in. So okay. Does full page screenshot render text? I don't know. It gives you an image. It gives you a PDF and it gives you a JPEG. So the JPEG wouldn't be, but the PDF you can open in Acrobat. And you should be able to pull the text from that. I think I've that before. So I think it will do that, but basically it's giving you a PDF or, or an image, right? A JPEG. I think with the PDF you can just pull it into Acrobat and that should fix it. You should be able to get it readable. This is get fire shot.com. That's what you can use if you are not using full page screen capture or go full page, let's see.
Yeah, you can do this too. Right? You can also save the pages of PDF directly through Google Chrome or Firefox or safari or whatever you use for your web browser. And then you can get the text rather than have it as an image. I think that getting the original page, the way it looks on the internet is more important than just having a wall of text. The wall of text is not what people wanna see. They wanna see like the final published version that it was actually on a site that it actually had color or design or that it lives someplace. I think we, you just pulled the text and you send someone basically a text file. That's not as strong of a clip as what it actually looked like on someone's website. That's my opinion. Okay.
Celia was in here. Welcome Celia <laugh> I hope that was helpful. Okay. Celia says very helpful. Thanks. Cool. Yeah, Celia. So the deal is start with LinkedIn very shortly thereafter. Start with your website. I'm going to link to those two videos. I think there's two. They'll go over questions that you need for LinkedIn and your website questions you need to answer and how you're gonna organize everything. So I hope that will be helpful. And if you're a freelance writer watching this video and you're trying to figure out how to set up your LinkedIn or how to make it actual ideal clients, these two LinkedIn videos that I'm gonna link below will be really helpful for you. Yeah. It's true that if you have the text, right, if you upload your clips as text, it does make it more SEO crawlable. But I think that's low on the totem pole higher on the totem pole are websites that are getting updated constantly with new stuff. That's more important.
Yeah, this is too. Yeah. So like if you like, you can do what Vicky mentioned, right? Like save it as a PDF, like save the webpage as a PDF. So you basically say like you wanna print it, but instead of printing, you click save as a PDF, right? There's dropdown options where like one is your printer and one is saved as a PDF. You can do that as well. And then it preserves, right? Like the web styling and all the pictures and stuff. Cool. All right. I think that's everything. I think we got through all the questions we got through all the topics. I hope this was helpful. If you feel like it was helpful, give it a thumbs up. If you feel like you wanna learn more about building a hiring for Lance writing business subscribe theup dates are regular. Although sometimes random <laugh> can you go back to your Haba hole? Like why do you do this
To me back up? No, you gotta go back to your Haba hole all the way back to your ha hole all the way, all the way. All the way all the treats are over here. There's nothing in here. Back up. Nope. You gotta back up, back up. Set up. <Laugh> there we go. All right. High five. Good job. Other one. Good girl. All right buddy. Ready?
1, 2, 3 dog. Yes. Bo you're on fire today. I can't believe you caught like almost all of these. It's amazing. It's amazing. I just can't believe it. Every time you get blown out Bo, because you're you and Charlotte have to match against each other. All right. So I hope this was helpful. We're here every Friday. We do live streams every Friday at noon central time. If you have a question, this was another thing. If you have a question or a topic you want covered on a live stream, you can pop it here. Mans.Com/Question. So this is how Celia, and this is how Diana and everybody puts in their questions. They go to mans.com/question. And if you don't feel comfortable having your name on there, if you don't feel comfortable sharing your name on the live stream, you can submit anonymously. But if there's a topic you want me to cover or a question you want me to answer, feel free to pop it in there. I will see everybody next Friday. Hope everybody has a great weekend. Thank you for being here. Thank you for joining. It's always fun to hang out with everybody, right? So I will see you next Friday. Bye .
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